goddamn dirty hippies!

this is what happens when dissent is placed within the market construct of mainstream commodity fetishism.

This article strikes a chord. It happened to me when I went to a Gay Pride parade in Seattle in 1990, I absolutely could not believe the amount of garbage left strewn across Capitol Hill. I was pretty bummed, but as a “straight white male” there was not a lot of space to say anything.

Nevertheless, perhaps war and climate change will get people to finally understand that there is no “Away”....everything has to go Somewhere…..that it is all interconnected consciousness rising…..Like Julia speaks of so well…..Viva Humboldt!

or is it a chicken and the egg dilemma? stop the war and people will learn to pack their waste out, or not make any? or is it learn to clean up after yourself and the war will finally stop?

I can only thank the people that made it out yesterday for speaking out.

i was in DC saturday and noticed the exact same thing. people walking around with mcdonald bags, drinking coca cola, then throwing them on the ground. it didn’t matter. then people think protests like that are going to change something? no. you know why it won’t? because you need to change yourself first, change your community, be aware of the million and one things in your every day life that encourages the destructive american lifestyle and indirectly supports the crooks in the white house.

agreed. change begins within.

*recommended reading (for all): The Legacy of Luna* by Julia ‘Butterfly’ Hill

You guys should quit bitching about something unimportant like the amount of trash generated and be happy at the visibility and coverage created by the march.

this is what happens when dissent is placed within the market construct of mainstream commodity fetishism

How can you escape this construct? Is it possible to place dissent outside of this construct and actually affect change?

i can’t believe you guys are going to obsses about the garbage. I agree garbage is a problem, but i find it interesting that this is sucha negative article on the protest. I’m absolutely not surprised that anthony would post it as he was trying to undermind the value of this event before it even happened, but i’m really shocked that folks are buying it.

I am also going to write an article about the event, one which anthony will not put up i’m sure, but i will say this:

complaining about the garbage but not complaining about the lack of Iraqi involvement in this seems a bit fuk’d.
As I walked around, i picked up a real love vibe from people. Just a smile and a hello from whoever made eye contact. Sitting eating a dog (i know it’s shit), having people come and talk to me and ask where I was from. Twice when I said Vancouver, Canada, people thanked me for coming. They would tell me how they met folks from seattle and from oregon (west coast connection I guess), but Vancouver was the farthest…
I met a chick from Austria, and some folks from Chicago.
There was definitely a love vibe being shared if you would allow yourself to pick it up.
As I stood infront of the stage, I met a woman from Maryland. She was Jewish and pointed out to me that she took issue with the referrence to Palestine, as she did not believe that was an occupation. We debated. We didn’t scream and we didn’t insult, we debated…
I don’t understand why this writer and GNN are so down on this convergence. Yes garbage was a problem, but if the writer is so fuk’d off by it, why the hell did he not get involved and do something about it. If that’s your cause and you know this major event is coming up, organize, fund raise, do something to alleviate the problem other than bitching.
Yeah, I like Woody and his message, but it’s elitest, with his super expensive motor home and his super expensive bicycle, and all the rest of his super expensive gear. Good for him he can get so involved with his own health and with not making a big footprint, I think that’s awesome, but i didn’t see him picking up trash either.
So I guess this is my gripe with writing like we have above. Stop wanting to have everyone take care of you, and if you see a problem, do more than bitch. Fix it. If garbage is your thing, than do something about it. Don’t show up empty-handed for dinner and then complain that there is no desert.

“My point is that cognitive dissonance was present in the collective group”

I think this is a really important point, its not that garbage is anybody’s thing, it should be everybody’s thing. i’m definitely not criticizing ppl for protesting but at some point, if you are buying into a protest, you need to be a conscious consumer. in this case, the product seems to have a heavy urban waste footprint. and of course, we all know there is an underclass-without even bringing race into it- that is responsible for cleaning it up. not to mention that they also swell the ranks of the war which was being protested.

sens – there has actually been very little and very poor coverage and “visibility” of this event.

porktamer: autonomous & collective direct action

pumo: write your article. i’ll vote fer it

it is my opinion that we, as protesters, should hold ourselves responsible for cleaning up after ourselves. this should hold true for humanity in all situations. i see no reason that protesters could not or should not focalize their own clean-up. in fact, we often do. leaving a city trashed is hardly a way to attract more people to the marches. many are disgusted. demonstrating real initiative not only to protest but also take care of everything that comes along with the protest would sure look (and be) a lot better than leaving our mess behind. we need to be autonomous. that means on all fronts. if we make a mess, we need to clean it up. plain and simple.

“We split early….. I can gripe, because I can explain how to fix it”

How noble of Dennis Kyne: see a problem, gripe about it, leave early.

I think I agree with the sentiment we need to be revolutionary in our every day lives, so our protest shouldn’t become extra work for working people. And I agree with the larger sentiment of not alienating those peoples who are most affected this war.

However this criticism in the original article is a little unfair, in that the vast majority of protesters were tax-paying Americans, who have the right to protest and should be able to rely on an infa-structure being in place that will be able to handle their waste. More trash cans and public toliets should have been in place.

So Dennis Kyne offers some criticism that I think could be constructive if kept in perspective, but that he decides the protest was a success or failure based on this is a little bit ridiculous. And it does ring with the “I love my community so want to help improve it” vibe.

Also he acts as if part of the uselessness of the protest was because the President wasn’t there, as if the President was there, he would be listening to the chants of the Protest. Protests are important to maintain a culture of resistance, allow connections to be built, and hopefully empower certain elected officials to act based on knowing how many people feel among other things – but it would be ridiculous to judge success by whether or not Bush or the other war makers were influenced by the march.

I would love a handbook “Things you can do in your everday life to not support the war” I think it would have in it things like don’t buy Pepsi, don’t shop at Walmart, etc. So that point is well taken, and this woman Julia “Butterfly” Hill seems interesting.

couple of points:

kyne is a hardcore dude. he was exposed to DU as a medic in Gulf War I. since, all he does is travel the country and spread the word. he’s been at crawford for more than a month. so if anyone has earned the right to bitch about protests it’s him.

for me, i think the issue he raises can almost be seen as a metaphor for the challenges that protests face: they hit a city with a massive amount of people, snarl traffic and leave a huge mess. how can we improve on that model? how can they connect better to the average blue collar worker that has to, say, clean up after them? to the people of the city? how many local DC people were marching?

that’s the issue. a lot of americans see antiwar protesters as dirty, undiscilpined hippies, this kind of disregard for the host city only reinforces that image. it may seem like a small point: trash, and I agree that kyne may be overdramatizing his point – but i think it raises some important larger questions…

*DN! Coverage of the Protests:*

Military Families Join Hundreds of Thousands of Anti-War Protesters Rallying in Washington

Actor Jessica Lange Speaks Out at Anti-War Protest in DC

Rep. Cynthia McKinney (D-GA) on the Iraq War and Hurricane Katrina

more…

The point is to lead by the example: bring special recycle bins for the event, so people can see there’s an eco-friendly actitude, but more important, a sense of responsibility.

nah fuggit: get some min wage spics to clean it all up – that’s what we let them in for

fuk anthony you make me laugh
in the diatribe attached to “galloways response to your slander (you as publisher of this national inquirer journalism)” you say with regards to the total defeatest position you present:

you say it and then you do it. You a run a story as your headline story that the protest is dirty and the president wasn’t even there…

before the thing even started you said this:

no one cares about street protests, they don’t change public opinion, in fact, in this day and age, they may actually dissaude people in certain circumstances

wtf?

I just want to say props to Dennis Kyne

You are the man for doing what your doing and I thank you sincerely for it. All I am saying is don’t feed the other side. see a hole, fill it up. I know that we are all way busier with dubyas plan to destroy the world and i totally dig what you’re doing, but we have to be positive with each other in this sea of hate, otherwise we are all gonna drown.

I was just working on a film about Ukrainian refugees from the fall of the soviet union, and i met a couple of folks who flew in to help. They told me about how under soviet rule, everything went to shit, and how the people took over cleaning up. People polishing the handles on trolleys, washing apartment lobby floors…

all I am saying is see a hole, fill it up. Good luck and power to you in all your endeavors.

Well, I was shocked by the mess left after Woodstock, too, but that was not what the gathering was remembered for.

I always pack out my own garbage and others should, too – that they don’t doesn’t keep me from going to gatherings anymore than trollers keep me from posting here. Damn it, anthony, you are really pissing me off! Protest gatherings against the government are encouraged in totalitarian countries as a healthy sign, and here they should be too. And like Katrina, this greatest of nations had warning that this storm was coming to Washington and could have had enough potties and waste baskets in place.

I disagree. This should have been an Alinsky exercise.
1. The Powers that be have adapted to the street march protest. It doesn’t have the effect that it did in the past. (When did it start as a tactic, and when was it effective?)

To combat the adaptation, new variations must be tried. A gathering of this many people carries a lot of power. Why use them to just shout at the sky? Poor use of power.

2. Push a negative hard enough and it becomes a positive.

You all sound like you are of the schizoid class. “I agree with your purpose, but I don’t agree with your tactics.” The severe reaction here is a good clue as to what could have been done. All attendees should have packed their trash.

They should have packed it and brought it to Washington. They should have brought as much trash as they could carry and left it in Washington.

The message should have been a lasting example of what Bush is doing to Iraq. If you are going to send a message, don’t be a pansy.

“We 200,000 people all gathered here to say we don’t think things are going quite as they should be and that it is bad. I don’t have any suggestions to make, and I don’t want to inconvenience any of you, but if you would listen to what we think, then we would appreciate it. I hope we haven’t disturbed you. Thank you. Sorry.”

Weak.

Interesting points… Bottom line is that not all anti-war protesters are environmental protesters or hippies for that matter (although some would like to think they are). It’s your own attitude first (I don’t throw any trash on the street anywhere), plus a city/the organizers can help a bit too. Place enough trash cans along a route/venue. Yes, the same is often seen at concerts, people too lazy to walk to the provided garbage bins…

I would argue any show of dissent is an effective show. Do new models for displaying dissent need to be developed? Yes. I would say that is what we are doing at GNN. Their are numerous fronts in any war. Why would the information war be any different? We all fight with the tools God has given us, so way bash the effectivness of a march vs that of a blog or anything else for that matter. They all have their place.

its a n ugly thing anytime for a group of people to show up and trash a city. but it is a noble thing for that same group to show up and support humanity.

I think this instance is a glass half-full half-empty scenario. how do we choose to view defines our character.

Respectfully, this articale was a wate of time and energy that could have been better spent on a real issue or coverage.

We are fighting for the very soul of humanity, and you want to talk about garbage?

Get real. And please dont hyper-blather about the inner workings or group dynamics of how sad it is that these people or so savage in their watefullness. The fact that they took time out to do anything speaks of their character.

Im sorry if I sound harsh but we really are fighting a war, and to focus on such triva anatagonizes my sense of desperation in this struggle.

I can summarize this article in one sentence:
“There should have been more trashcans.”

Wow…................................................. Insightful?

Tell that to the dead iraqis and dead american soldiers. Tell that to the taxpayers trying to refill an empty treasury.

Many people dropped what they were doing and spent their own time and money to go south. They should not be marginalized, because the city of DC (no taxation without representation) doesn’t have enough trashcans.

This article was definately not a waste of time and pointless. Notice the debate it generated? i don’t know how anyone can say some a healthy debate is a bad thing. Its certainly something that should continue.

j:
exactly, people don’t seem to understand that it’s about agreeing or disagreeing, it’s about starting a discussion
that’s my goal here on GNN
not to just post things that I think people will agree with

you are so full of shit

sorry to all if i sound rabid,
but i’m still sick over that crap with galloway and the attempt to undermind the march.
i’ll go away now…

“As a result the event produced 112 gallons worth of trash – the amount that an average family of four generates in three weeks.”
What kind of an average family are you referring to? I presume – you mean an average American family? America as a whole consumes (I have read) 25% of the earth’s resources and makes up about 4% of the world’s population.
When you are talking about averages – where is your baseline? In my opinion – the way you have defined ‘average’ – is rather America-centric and is not reflective at all of the lifestyles of the Majority of Average families in the world.

with all due respect to anthony, kyne is a chump who claims that the us secretly used nuclear weapons during the ’91 gulf war, using photos of dead, decomposing bodies as his proof. he’s a self-serving, self-promoting kinda guy, and i agree with the comments in this thread to the effect that he should take up this cause if he’s into it, not split early, complain about it, and tell us to contact julia butterfly. let’s not lionize a guy who lives off the goodwill of others and uses his veteran status to promote falsehoods.

“they hit a city with a massive amount of people, snarl traffic “

I know, what are they thinking, having a protest interfere mildly in the lives of Americans. It’s not like they’re trying to get people to think about the Iraq war and how the American infrastructure and lifestyles (including traffic and driving) is connected to the Iraq violence. Christ. C’mon people.

Sense:
I’m not saying that shouldn’t stop you from protesting. I’m just pointing out that those are things that the average American thinks about.

the average american thinks “those damn war protests snarl traffic”? On a saturday? by the white house?
That comment is just YOU coming up with a negative about protesting to try and push a negative vibe, no matter how ridiculous…

and what about posting something about Haim Yavin the guy I told you about that you say you’ve never heard of. Guardian did a story, it was on the front page of yahoo, wikipedia has a blurb, and you say you have never heard of the man. I told you about his heroic attempts at trying to wake up the Israeli population as to the true nature of the occupation through his status as “Mr. Israel”, the most trusted and recognizable anchor in Israel, and this doesn’t even spark your interest.
You say you post stuff that sparks convo rather than what people want to hear. I know that one will spark convo, and if you are as big a critic of Israeli policy as you claim to be, how did you miss this guy and why aren’t you interested in supporting him?

Haim Yavin, Anchor of Mabat, the main evening news on Channel One, Israeli State TV, since 1968. His controversial 5-part, personalized documentary “Land of the Settlers” opened on May 31, 2005 on a rival channel, with one episode airing every week.

pumo – why don’t you post something or write something original on the dude?

i’ll try. I called his handler to see if i can get an interview, but i haven’t heard back

ok there it is

Among those filmed by Mr Yavin is an Israeli soldier in Hebron who wonders how his compatriots can remain silent in the face of the “horrors” the army commits, and the settlers who ask him why he’s not shooting Palestinian children.