Here we go again….

If the WP charge is true, you’d have seen Fallujah so obscured with smoke that nothing would have been visable…and troops would have been at greater risk as they would have been running up on those guys at small arms range which eliminates any advantage the grunts had with their supporting arms.

I see clear streets on every bit of footage I’ve seen except for dust kicked up by HE, which is brown, not bright white as WP is.

In fact, when I was there, I was curious as to why the infantry DIDN’T have WP grenades to screen their movements across streets and such. A. They didn’t have any in inventory. B. Wouldn’t have used it if they had because a smokescreen neutralises every small arms advantage they had. You can’t scope a guy off a rooftop through a cloud of smoke.

(We found people with bizarre wounds-their bodies burned but their clothes intact, relates Mohamad Tareq al-Deraji, a biologist and Fallujah resident.)

Sorry, there has NEVER been an incindiary weapon used on the tactical level in all fo history that could concievably do that. You burn, all of you burns…period.

Also, if you’re using “Chemical” weapons, it would behoove you to equip your own people with gas masks….another piece of kit conspicuously absent in photos or footage. In fact, it’s usually the first thing that gets left behind or thrown in a ditch when soldiers move out.

Absence of gas masks leads me to conclude that the US didn’t even bother to use CS riot control agents (tear gas). Why? Cause it’s more of a pain in the ass than it’s worth.

Italian journos playing politics again.

I watched the video…lots of holes in that story.

BUT...note how when the little balls strike the ground there are a bunch of little secondary explosions?

Cluster munition…from artillery. That’s why it’s bursting sideways, towards the ground. What you’re seeing is the explosive charge that breaks apart the casing and scatters the bomblets. The bomblets than come down and have their own secondaries.

Note there are three separate rounds going off…3 guns, the standard makeup of US artillery sections. (there were three Palladins parked right behind the dining hall at Victory, it was probably them, having rolled out when 2/12 set up their cordon)

WP doesn’t detonate twice…

Also, “Willie” Pete is one of the few anacronyms in the military that doesn’t conform to the current phonetic alphabet. Ever since WW2 it’s been called “Willie” Pete…never have I heard it referred to as “Wiskey” Pete. (at least not by anyone I was ever around)

Interesting that they’d be interviewing a kid that was alledgedly from the Army when Fallujah was a Marine fight….

2/12th cavalry was securing a perimeter around the town, not fighting in it.

Also, the only thing you’ll hear coming over a radio for general traffic regarding a munition is something called “Flash Traffic” and that pertains to a nuke or a chemical weapon attack (a real one like nerve gas). Occasionally you may hear that there are aircraft inbound, but that’s down on the tactical nets…not a battalion or brigade net, which, if this boy was “escorting an American commander” his radios would have been on battalion or brigade net, not company.

Also, if he’s going to be the feature interview, why not make note of what unit he was with? It’s a few extra keystrokes.

I love how they conclude that the city was “blanketed” from one bit of footage.

There’s all sorts of holes in this, big enough to drive a truck through.

English Video here.

More info on white phosphorus here.

News for leftists:

1. This whole report is based on one un-named ‘veteran’. There is not one shred of corroberating evidence. We knew before we liberated Fallujah that the leftist/terror gang nexus would make wild claims. Where is the proof.

2. White Phosphorus is not banned by the Geneva Convention, or at least no convention signed by the US.

3. The US will use any and every weapon not banned by treaty at their discretion to defeat the terror gangs in Iraq.

Revelation 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

(Skip….........)
Revelation 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

I must say this propaganda film actually is very pro-US. It is so full of lies and half truths that it is a kind of characature of leftist propaganda. It tries to imply that Iraqis should have democracy and Americans just go in there to kill people.

They also found a traitor scum to trash his troops. Now, I wouldn’t put it past these leftists propagandists to use a long haird college kid and dress him up, cut his hair and pay him a few grams of hash for his words, howevere, let’s assume that he is an ex-soldier. He actually said nothing. One line I really liked. He was going on about how the US military said that every male should be considered a combattant. Then he said, ... but by Fallujah they told us that any male carrying an AK 47 was considered a combattant. Duuuuh, ya figure.

The funnies part in my mind anyways was when the Italian kunt, the Italians paid terrorists to free, whatever her name was, tried to imply that the US must have kidnapped her to silence her story about Fallujah. It makes no sense, but hey this is leftwing propaganda.

Hey fellow_worker,

Still hanging out with billy braggs waiting for that final battle huh.

US Forces ‘Used Chemical Weapons’ during Assault on City of Fallujah

VIDEO: Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre: A Film by Sigfrido Ranucci – WARNING: This video contains graphic and possibly disturbing footage.

Democracy Now!:

U.S. Broadcast Exclusive – ‘Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre’ on the U.S. Use of Napalm-Like White Phosphorus Bombs: Democracy Now! airs an exclusive excerpt of ‘Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre,’ featuring interviews with U.S. soldiers, Iraqi doctors and international journalists on the U.S. attack on Fallujah. Produced by Italian state broadcaster RAI TV, the documentary charges U.S. warplanes illegally dropped white phosphorus incendiary bombs on civilian populations, burning the skin off Iraqi victims. One U.S. soldier charges this amounts to the U.S. using chemical weapons against the Iraqi people.

A Debate: Did the U.S. Military Attack Iraqi Civilians With White Phosphorous Bombs in Violation of the Geneva Conventions?: We speak with a former U.S. soldier who witnessed orders being given to drop white phosphorous bombs over Fallujah; a Pentagon spokesperson in Baghdad who admits such bombs were used but denied they were used as a chemical weapon; and the news director of RAI TV, the Italian TV network that produced ‘Fallujah: The Hidden Massacre.’

Again….from someone who’s been around this stuff his entire professional life….

I watched the video…lots of holes in that story.

BUT…note how when the little balls strike the ground there are a bunch of little secondary explosions?

Cluster munition…from artillery. That’s why it’s bursting sideways, towards the ground. What you’re seeing is the explosive charge that breaks apart the casing and scatters the bomblets. The bomblets than come down and have their own secondaries.

Note there are three separate rounds going off…3 guns, the standard makeup of US artillery sections. (there were three Palladins parked right behind the dining hall at Victory, it was probably them, having rolled out when 2/12 set up their cordon)

WP doesn’t detonate twice…

The 120 version…there is also 60mm, 81mm and artilelry rounds)

(Note….impregnated felt wads)

The XM929/XM929E1, smoke is a 120mm mortar cartridge which utilizes White Phosphorus (WP) impregnated felt payload to provide obscuration screening on impact. It achieves ranges from 300 – 7200 meters with the M120/M121 Battalion Mortar System.

The M929 Cartridge is designed for use with the M120 and M121 120mm Mortar Systems for screening and obscuration missions.

The 1045 steel projectile is loaded with felt wedges which are impregnated with white phosphorus (WP). The M929 is equipped with the M734A1 Multi-Option Fuze (the XM929 version is equipped with the M745 Point Detonating Fuze which functions in the Impact or Delay mode).

When the fuze functions it initiates a Composition B burster charge which ruptures the projectile and disperses the WP-saturated felt wedges.

The WP begins to burn upon contact with air and generates the required smoke cloud.

Each M929 cartridge is packed in a PA153 Fiber Container and two packed rounds are assembled into a PA154 Metal Overpack.

The M929 consists of the following major components:
Projectile Body Assembly
M230 Propelling Charge (with M45 Propellant)
M981 Ignition Cartridge (with M44 Propellant)
M31 Fin Assembly
XM86 Burster
M734A1 Multi-Option Fuze
PA153 Fiber Container
PA154 Metal Overpack

Whatever it was, i’m sure it’s fucked up, just like DU and hey it’s not like we’re not known for dropping fire on civilians anyway, right? We’d use this stuff on our own mothers c’mon wake up already…the war kikes will lie and lie and lie some more…no calling italian ladies kunts, IF2, quit being an annoying hate-filled jewish asshole that no one likes for five minutes. Italy supports our war on Error, just their journalists have more balls than ours do.
Hope and pray for poison gas attacks in Israel, like all good freedom loving americans, and the inevitable break-up of Iraq—you can count on it.

Belph..whatever

Italy is pretty high maintenence and useless ally. I will they’de sat out the war.

Their only value would have been diplomatic and possibly if they were on the SC. Other than that Italy is a useless country in wartime. You gotta love their cooking and their wines and they can do many nice things, but waging war isn’t one of them.

Shifty,

We know that the far left has organized lots of webs sites and sponsered many ‘pieces’ on the liberation of Fallujah designed to falsely portray the battle , as not a great victory for freedom, but an anti-US libel. We know that. We have all seen the leftwing trash, and we have read the Arab lie obligation statements from witnesses.

We get our information from the US military who was there and unlike the false eyewitnesses, our military is honorable. Our purpose is freedom, our cause is just, our leaders righteous and our soldiers are glorious.

The Iraqi people and the coalition will win over the sunni terror gangs in Iraq.

“Our purpose is freedom, our cause is just, our leaders righteous and our soldiers are glorious.”

Did you write that with a straight face? No, really I wanna know. Covering your ass in a war no one but the Likudniks and Halliburton wanted requires much lying, torture, killing of women and children, and most importantly, armchair quarterbacks who will try and bullshit the people at home to support the sacred, sanctimonious mission abroad. The truth is, no one here except for families with soldiers, gives a shit about this war. If it was such a holy deed the NeoCunts wouldn’t have had to make up a different excuse each week to justify all the killing in the first place.

I agree wholeheartedly about Italy’s uselessness during wartime, though.

radio show from Wednesday, November 17th, 2004

Fallujah: A Sea of Rubble and Death

this is a good collection of reports from fallujah after the attack. well sourced.

US Criticised for Use of Phosphorous in Fallujah Raids

from someone who’s been around this stuff his entire professional life

these weapons are illegal. how is it you worked around banned chemical weapons your “entire professional life”?!?

Fallujah – the hidden massacre Photo gallery – Warning – Images depict the reality and horror of war.

White Phosphorous is NOT an “illegal” weapon. It is not even classified as a “Chemical” weapon in the sense you mean.

This is what it is…again.

The XM929/XM929E1, smoke is a 120mm mortar cartridge which utilizes White Phosphorus (WP) impregnated felt payload to provide obscuration screening on impact. It achieves ranges from 300 – 7200 meters with the M120/M121 Battalion Mortar System.

The M929 Cartridge is designed for use with the M120 and M121 120mm Mortar Systems for screening and obscuration missions.

(those are the technical specs above…not a news story)

“Obscuration” as in “Smoke Screen” as in “obscure vision.”

It’s all WP has ever been for the most part. It has secondary incindiary applications, but not really usefull in areas where every structure is of masonry construction.

All that aside, that “Documentary” is shoddy journalism and was intended to intended to inflame more than inform. That effects all of us professionally. Imagine what it’s like to be a regular Italian journalist in Iraq right now? Doubt very much if they’re going to get much cooperation from anyone anymore, and this is the oddest profession in that you must cultivate trust with every side.

You do that by presenting solid work, and that wasn’t solid work. There were a lot of holes.

That’s all.

PS; I’ve had lots and lots of chemical weapons defense training and they’re definately banned. It’s about knowledge, not nescessarily actual use.

White Phosphorous is NOT an “illegal” weapon. It is not even classified as a “Chemical” weapon in the sense you mean. H-jim

the point is that it should be illegal for the u.s. as it is for countries which bother to recognize international law.

WP is a chemical, using it as a weapon makes it a “chemical weapon”.
it is be classified as a blister agent because of the way it burns skin, mucous membranes, eyes, etc. the other classifications of chemical weapons are: choking agents, blood agents, and nerve agents.

when you mix it with explosives and fire it into a building where “insurgents have been spotted all week”, the intent of using the chemical is as a weapon… ie. a chemical weapon.

i know that in double-think land, chemicals which burn on contact are not chemicals or weapons… and everyone seems much happier with the “incendiary weapon” definition.

that’s fine, but the way i see it, it’s only really an incendiary weapon when it’s pointed at people so… i guess that sort of covers the intent aspect.

chemical weapons means using toxic chemicals on people.

The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons
http://www.opcw.org/