Shooting War Gen-We Getting A Grip Wolves In Sheep's Clothing

T15227

Battle In Seattle
Forum : Sci-Tech
R154429
3 years ago
Porktamer

Right on… I will remain cynical – but slightly less cynical.

R154453
3 years ago
drewhempel

Right on! That’s my mentor in activism — Dr. John E. Peck — he’s totally awesome.

Personally I’m betting on algae — thousands of times more efficient than any other biodiesel and also a sure replacement for humans when we fuck up big time.

R154458
3 years ago
drewhempel

This gives the comparison — 1 acre of algae is 15,000 gallons!

And what clinches it for algae is that one of the main six year test sites was Roswell, New Mexico.

Post Modified: 04/27/06 12:33:00
R154548
3 years ago
ByAnyMeans

Good read and interesting comment on the Algae. I too will remain a cynic until I see any good done by massive Bio-alternatives and hold that we’d be better off without any technology in the first place, but maybe that’s just because I’m simple.

R154577
3 years ago
CorporationsRule

Please don’t tell me this “Chindia” thing is going to catch on. Fuck.

R154585
3 years ago
tango

Chindia

BioBased Society

White Biotechnology

Fuck. People sure do like making up words don’t they.

we’d be better off without any technology in the first place

Wow. I mean, what do you say to that? To each his own I guess, but I have a sneaking suspicion that you don’t chew oak bark for headaches or till your own fields with oxen before planting. However, while AnyMeans commentary is well meaning, this:

White biotechnology will require a heavy application of Green biotechnology to become successful,” said Steen Riisgaard, CEO of Novozymes, a Bioengineering firm. “And eventually, White will transform into Green when plants are bioengineered to be optimal fuel stocks. This will not please the opponents of GMOs .”

just plain hurts the childen.

Otherwise, I enjoyed this article Immensely. Thank you.

Post Modified: 04/27/06 17:15:41
R154613
3 years ago
drewhempel

suspision — another damn made up word.

R154615
3 years ago
tango

Thanks drew! Not so much made up, as mis-spelt. I also spelt “commentary” wrong, but both have been corrected. Good catch.

R154628
3 years ago
drewhempel

You misspelled some more words in the black hole blog but as if I care. I was hoping you had made it up.

R154635
3 years ago
Joe_Hill

As long as we keep allowing our energy to be sold by the liter/gallon we’ll have trouble. It’s better than oil consumption but, we should be working towards sustainable energy solutions like wind power, etc. Peck says it pretty well.

R154687
3 years ago
bacchus

from what I’ve read, ethanol still takes more than a gallon of ethanol in energy input to produce a gallon of ethanol output, meanning the whole thing is just a massive subsidy to US farmers. Am I behind the times or has this changed?

R154709
3 years ago
TheHyperT

There’s a MAJOR flaw on this “oh so nice!” plan:

The only reason why the US economy hasn’t collapsed YET is the HUGE revenues from the fixed-petrodollar currency.

Get everybody and their dog going BIO and you can kiss your economy goodbye.

R154716
3 years ago
EdmundFrost

OK. Lots of hype for industrial biotech here, but how does it break down when you look closely? There are two major threads to the above article: biofuels and biotech. Where do the two intersect? The primary intersection is that both start with “bio” and have to do with agriculture, so the biotech industry has decided to start a new PR campaign that piggy-backs agricultural biotech onto biofuels because biofuels are more popular. This PR campaign includes, incidentally, Shaw’s above article, which is linked from the headlines section of the Biotech Industry Organization (BIO) website. http://www.bio.org/events/2006/media/topstories.asp
Another intersection is that biofuels may soon be the only market for GMO crops.

So what are some other intersections between biotech and biofuels? Lets look at ethanol and then biodiesel.

Ethanol: It is touched on in the above article but not quite explained that the biotech industry is attempting to genetically engineer microbes to convert crop waste into ethanol (currently, only the grain from the corn is used). Here are some concerns:
“Crop waste” is actually not waste. It is generally tilled back into the soil to replenish it with organic matter, which keeps the soil healthy.
Microbes engineered to produce ethanol could escape into the soil, disturbing soil ecosystems in unknown ways. In the early ‘90s, independent researchers inadvertently discovered that GE microbes designed to break down crop waste into ethanol killed wheat seedlings when present in the soil because they kept on producing ethanol in the soil. [See link: http://online.sfsu.edu/%7Erone/GEessays/Klebsiellaplanticola.html] Like GMO crops, this is not an area where we should blindly trust biotech corporations.
The biotech industry has failed to follow through on their promises that they would produce more nutritious food or significant disease resistant crops using genetic engineering. Why should we believe their claims about new ethanol technologies? Or all the other industrial chemical production processes they’re talking about?
As Shaw mentions, ethanol production in the US is currently only possible through subsidies because producing it creates a net energy loss (it takes more energy to make it than it provides). How is that an energy source? Ethanol from corn should be soundly crossed off the list of solutions to the energy crisis, and BIO, ADM and anyone else who promotes it should be called out loud and clear.

Biodiesel: There is no link between biotech and biodiesel, except that biodiesel production is a potential dumping ground for GMO products. This may be better than eating them, but what about the problems of genetic drift and pollen contamination, and one-year-only seed patents, and aggressive prosecution of farmers for violating these patents (including farmers who never planted GMOs)? There is no need for new biotech processes to produce biodiesel, and GMOs provide no advantage. What we get out of Shaw’s article is that, while ethanol is questionable, biodiesel is a good idea. But where’s the biotech in that? If the purpose of the article is to promote biodiesel, why is BIO even mentioned?
Aside from this, biodiesel has problems of its own: Producing biodiesel from soy and sunflower seed, like ethanol, is currently done at a net energy loss. Matt Atwood, quoted by Shaw, says that will change soon and we’re supposed to believe him. OK, maybe so, maybe not, but how does this amount to a “scintilating new field?” And even if this were worked out, to make a dent in our use of oil we’d have to grow an awful lot of biodiesel feedstocks, which would either massively displace food production or put a lot of new land into chemical intensive monoculture. You can bet that the cost of soil loss, fertilizer and pesticide runoff, habitat loss and water pollution would not be factored into the equation. The idea of using double the arable land currently farmed in the US (just to produce enough biodiesel to equal current US diesel usage) makes me cringe. We’d all be living in a soy field. Realizing even a fraction of this mentality would be an ecological and cultural disaster.
[I want to say here that I think running cars off of recycled grease is a good idea with room to grow, but there really isn’t that much grease out there]

There’s another thread to the article: Quoting industry hype about other aspects of industrial biotech, without discussing or examining it:
“’Through recombinant DNA technology, scientists can use microorganisms in new and exciting ways to manufacture polymers, vitamins, enzymes, or transportation fuel.’ – BIO Website” “BioEuropa claims to be able to reduce pollution and waste, decrease the use of energy, raw materials and water, create new materials and biofuels from our waste products, and provide an alternative to many chemical processes. It uses living cells like moulds, yeasts or bacteria, as well as enzymes to produce eco-friendly substances made from renewable raw materials—also known as “biomass”—like plant matter, starch, cellulose, vegetable oils, agricultural waste, old grease, etc.”
Are they talking about bioplastics made from plant material? It can be done without GMOs and without biotech processes.
And what about test plots of plants that have been genetically engineered to produce industrial chemicals? What precautions are being taken to insure that these plants aren’t cross-pollinating with food plants? What regulations are there about it? None. Who is currently liable for contaminated crops and seeds? The farmer who is the victim of the contamination. And then what if these crops are grown on a mass scale?

So to conclude, the bio-based economy and the bio-based society promoted by BIO and mentioned in Shaw’s article amount to two biofuels technologies that currently produce products at net energy losses. Biodiesel and current ethanol production don’t even have anything to do with biotech. There are no plans to factor in hidden costs of monoculture. Even in a best-case scenario, these biofuels won’t even make a dent in our oil consumption. There is good cause for skepticism of industry claims and promises about other industrial biotech applications, based on their record, both in terms of safety and success.

Here is a good critique of both ethanol and biodiesel:
http://www.energyjustice.net/ethanol/factsheet.html

Instead of being taken in by the hype about biofuels – newly taken up by BIO – we should focus on reducing oil consumption through better public transportation, fuel efficiency, local food systems, organic farming, local economies, green building, less consumerism and developing sustainable alternative energy sources. And we shouldn’t let big biotech off the hook for pursuing and releasing scientifically flawed technology that could have catastrophic impacts on health, ecology and agriculture.

Finally, I will ask Charles Shaw to submit any responses to this comment directly to this website, and to refrain from sending another insulting message to my personal email account, as after I commented on the Alternet version of this article.
http://alternet.org/envirohealth/35243/

R154735
3 years ago
tango

EF. One thing needing further elaboration:

Another intersection is that biofuels may soon be the only market for GMO crops

As the rate acreage increase of biotech crops is still steadily increasing, especially so in devoloping markets ( James, 2005 ).

Although transgenic plants with altered nutritional composition have yet to be developed (on purpose), as long as first generation transgenics are benefiting the companies as well as the farmers (e.g., pesticides, fuel costs, ect.) ( Traxier, 2004 ; Brooks and Barfoot, 2005 ), than it seems likely that their growth will continue.

As many in North America can attest, the presence of GM ingredients in our food is ubiquitous, and is often ignored by the majority of the population. Without an informed, sustained campaign to the contrary, GM crops will continue to dominate North American markets

BTW, you may be interested to read Shaw’s article detailing the perils of GMOs that addressed HGT (sort of).

Post Modified: 04/27/06 23:56:54
R154746
3 years ago
AcornistA

Right on with the critique, Edmund! The core flaw in Shaw’s thinking is his delusion that the “oil crisis” is a “problem” that can or even should be “solved.” What if, instead, it’s an opportunity for radical change? What if our high-consumption economy and fast-paced, drive-thru culture is the actual problem? What if, instead of trying to develop environmentally catastrophic industrial-scale substitutes for oil like genetically engineered monoculture biofuel plantations, we recognized the imminent collapse of global oil supply as a historic chance to realize our wildest dreams for total liberation?

In my essay “Peak Opportunity! Earth Liberation and the Oil Endgame,” published in the current spring 2006 issue of Earth First! Journal and posted at
http://peakoilanarchy.blogspot.com, I map out a strategy to turn the very real and rapidly growing “oil crisis” into a global victory for radical sustainability, rewilded landbases and anti-authoritarian revolution. Needless to say, there’s no room in my strategy for the “BIO-based economy” unless it’s based on protecting and increasing bioDIVERSITY.

I encourage everyone who’s interested in radically sustainable alternatives to oil to come to the May 6th “DC Petrocollapse – After Peak Oil: Economic Doom or Transformation? Culture Change and Sustainable Post-Petroleum Living” Conference at All Souls Church in Washington DC! Check out www.petrocollapse.org for details…

R154772
3 years ago
sisyphus

Heh, I just saw this.

Good dissenting voices.

Love your site acornista.

R155047
3 years ago
gavin_rose

what bacchus said is still true, and biodiesel isn’t a great improvement in efficiency (soy biodiesel consumes something like 127% of its fuel output, and sunflowers are even less efficient than corn)

wind is probably the better hope for the future

just read an interview with lester brown pointing out that when oil prices climb above $60/gallon, the value of land for food production is outpaced by its value for fuel production, inefficient though that is in the big picture .. as watertables drop and irrigation damage plus other forces driving soil degradation (not to mention climate change) takes more land out of production, there could be a nasty crunch here between the economic demand for fuel and the economic demand for grain

he pointed out that the lack of processing facilities for biofuels has held back this potential problem in the past, but as biodiesel plants start popping up like mushrooms around the world, look for fuel-associated arable land shortages for food production

one important point in this article is that the american midwest has already converted to soy production, so biodiesel has great appeal to U.S. farmers’ congressmen and women – I’m curious how the soy lobby lines up against the ethanol lobby, if they’re not all under the same umbrella lobby that is (Monsanto)

R155092
3 years ago
drewhempel

Soy is Cargill which partners with Monsanto. Cargill dominates the food supply for 100 countries and their 2nd largest operation is Brazil — converting the Amazon into soy for China and for McDonald’s chicken. The amazon is source for 25% freshwater and oxygen.

R156023
3 years ago
thesteelavenger

gavin rose

“look for fuel-associated arable land shortages for food production”

Not necessarily.

Biodiesel can be made using Rapeseed (a mustard variety) which is a ntrogen fixing plant. Farmers could use their exisiting fields and existing crops and merely add a new crop to their earning potential. Crops need to be rotated for nitrogen fixing purposes. Mustard seed could be used for this purpose and the seeds harvested for fuel production, all without effecting existing agricultural operations.

Also, fuel can be made from used cooking oil that has already been used for nutritional purposes (EX: reclaimed oil from McDonalds). Combustible fuel can also be made from human waste (biomass – not for use in vehicles, but may help with powering our cities). And as you pointed out, wind is very promising, as well as solar and water power (wave and dam).

R156054
3 years ago
tyrecian

bacchus said: “from what I’ve read, ethanol still takes more than a gallon of ethanol in energy input to produce a gallon of ethanol output, meanning the whole thing is just a massive subsidy to US farmers. Am I behind the times or has this changed?”

nah not really. ADM (corn and soy) have been pushing the ethanol from corn idea for 15 years, they have been trying to make a percentage fo all US gas ethanol for a long time. I wouldnt have picked up on it, except i watch PBS Jim Lehrer and they sponsor his show, so i was interested when i saw their name in an interest group book Jefferey Berry “The Interest Group Society” in conjunction with huge lobbying. Apparently they have no wish to really be sustainable, but they are going to try and ride this feelgood idea that subsidies will solve all out problems.

soon it is very possible the US will see a drop in pump prices replaced by a similar rise in taxation for subsidy interests. Then again maybe not. There are many tech out there, some are good, others need improving. All of them desire implementation, but that is the hard part.

change is difficult. Big change even more so. It also requires thought, something that is lacking (severely) in today’s US business community. Therefore i would expect a bunch of the same. Rich people want to stay rich, and the up and comers want to be rich… everyone else can bloddy well fark off.

R156156
3 years ago
drewhempel

Considering that the main source for oil is oceanic algae — as I just proved on the “what is Oil” thread — then again I have to emphatically support the algae answer for the global oil crisis.

drew hempel, M.A.

R156157
3 years ago
drewhempel

drewhempel C.J. Campbell—that great “petroleum consultant”—states that oceanic algae is the main source for oil—NOT plants falling into bogs and swamps.
2. WHAT IS OIL ANYWAY?
In the summer of 1987 the tourist industry on the Adriatic coast of Italy faced disaster. The beaches were clogged with an evil smelling glutinous material; and the fishermen reported that the same stuff was clogging their nets and killing the fish. What had happened was that exceptional weather conditions in the near tide-less and current-free Adriatic had led to a huge proliferation of algae. These soft bodied microorganisms were extracting the oxygen from the sea and poisoning all life. The crisis lasted a few weeks before the weather changed. The glutinous masses sank to the seabed and things returned to normal.
This material is the origin of oil in a long and complex process. Simply stated, the process involves the following steps. First there have to be the climatic and physical conditions for prolific algal growth to take place. Second, the organic debris that falls to the sea (or lake) bed has to be preserved from oxidation by bottom-dwelling organisms or current action. Third, it has to be concentrated to provide the quantities needed to charge an oilfield. Lastly, it has to buried by younger sediments over geological time so that it becomes heated sufficiently to be converted into petroleum. Algal material is the main source of oil, but sometimes there are admixtures of other organic debris, including vegetal remains that are gas prone.

drewhempel Here’s Snark’s masterful analysis that is WRONG: “Most oil formations are actually derived from bogs and swamps. Thick vegetation and algae grow up above the water and fall in when they die.” drewhempel THE MAIN SOURCE OF OIL IS OCEAN ALGAE NOT PLANTS FALLING INTO BOGS AND SWAMPS—don’t believe Snark’s disinformation created by too many nights out drinking with his “friends.” Title: Geochemistry of the upper Jurassic lower cretaceous Bazhenov formation, west Siberia Author(s): Gavshin VM, Zakharov VA Source: ECONOMIC GEOLOGY AND THE BULLETIN OF THE SOCIETY OF ECONOMIC GEOLOGISTS 91 (1): 122-133 JAN-FEB 1996 Document Type: Article Language: English Cited References: 37 Times Cited: 13 Abstract: The Bazhenov Formation (Tithonian to Berriasian) occupies about 1 million km(2) in the central part of the West Siberian plate and is buried by 2,000 to 3,000 m of younger sediments. It was formed in a marine basin connected to the world oceans and is composed primarily of siliceous argillites rich in planktonic organic matter (about 8% of total organic carbon on average). Organic-rich sediments have been accumulating for about 5 to 6 million years; they supposedly formed periodically under anoxic conditions. The aggregate mass of organic matter in the Bazhenov Formation is as high as 18 trillion tons. It is known as one of the largest oil sources in the world.
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